Cascading Audience Segmentation

Graham: Welcome everyone to the first maybe annual Sip and Learn presented by Obility. We’re going to sip some good wines here, and we’re going to learn a little bit about cascading audience segmentation, which is a pretty fancy term here. I think we’re mostly here for the sip part and the learning is just going to be secondary. let me tell you who’s going to be presenting today. Can you go to the next slide, Mike?

Mike: Yes.

Graham: Thank you. We’ve got Mike Nierengarten who’s the founder and president of Obility, and you can see here working with a lot of B2B SaaS companies and a lot of tech to generate pipeline and revenue. We also have Jey Hall, Director of the Nightlife at Armand de Brignac. Ace of Spades is another way to say it, that’s easier for me due to my French accent lacking. You can see here, hundreds of activations to help organizations and share great wine experiences, which is why he’s here today. Then there’s me, I’m the Director of Marketing at Obility, I like to tell a lot of jokes.

I’m a volume shooter, so I don’t hit a lot of them, but when I do, I appreciate at least a pity laugh, which since you’re all muted, I’m going to assume you’re busting up right now. Let me tell you a little bit more about Obility. I think one thing that you can probably have noticed is that the email address that you have got a confirmation from was done for a marketing group.

That’s actually one of our sister companies. We have a shared go-to-meeting account where apparently, it’s just going to say it’s from them because that’s what it was started in. The interesting thing is Obility, you can see there on the top, we’re a digital marketing agency. We do paid search, SEO, paid social display, and then down to our marketing group, is more of the account-based marketing. We combine a good skill and data management content, marketing automation, demand Gen, and conversion, and that fits perfectly with what Obility does.

Really, we can offer that true end to end revenue marketing model, and so that’s our total solution for account-based marketing. Technically today, this is just an Obility event. Let’s talk about the wines a little bit. I think this is why we’re all here. You can see there’s going to be four wines, really should have received four bottles. I’ve gotten a few emails of people that maybe it hasn’t gotten there yet and I apologize for that, but you will still get the recording of this at the end once you can still do the wine tasting on your own. If you’re here live, you can sit silently drink your own wine, and then when that other wine comes, you can just chug it to your delight.

It’s almost the weekend. You can hop off or you can stay on, it doesn’t matter. You’re still going to get a lot of good information, and like I said, the wine should still be on its way if you have not received it. Really what you’re going to see here are two different wines to start. One is from Oregon, one is from France, and then the second set, we’re going to talk about some calves from Napa and Italy. I don’t know much about wine so this is going to be very educational for me as well. Jey is really going to fill us in. Just formatting-wise, if you have any questions, you can put them in the chat, in the go-to-meeting, and at the end, I will convey them to either Jey or Mike.

Put them in any time during the presentation, we’ll just address them at the end. If you have any specific questions or you’re having technical problems, you can go ahead and put that in the chat as well you should be able to private chat to me directly, but if not, to everybody, is fine as well. I think that’s it for the logistics anything else there Mike or Jey that I’m missing?

Mike: No, sounds great.

Graham: Let’s go through it. Jey, why don’t you tell us a little bit more about you here, just so we know you actually know what you’re talking about?

Jey: chuckles I don’t know if I know what I’m talking about, but I have some certifications inaudible 00:04:52. I’ve worked in the beverage industry for quite a while now, started in non-alcoholic beverages, and moved into a role with Moet Hennessy, where we launched the first Moetbrand from Hennessy on a large scale release since 1960s. Then moved into various roles working on all of the Moet Hennessey brands; Dom Perignon, Krug Moet, Veuve Clicquot, Belvedere scotches. I recently made a switch and I am the director of the Pacific West region primarily for Nightlife accounts and unintelligible 00:05:29 accounts for Armand de Brignac, also known as Ace of Spades.

I have a couple of certifications as I just mentioned inaudible 00:05:39 education trust unintelligible 00:05:41 quartermasters level 1. I’m currently just waiting on level three. I like to drink wine, and like to learn about it as well. As I mentioned, there’s two different approaches when it comes to the court, systematic tasting and unintelligible 00:06:08 don’t really need to know those terms, but I think they’re helpful just calibrating the way that you taste wine, and ultimately giving you a streamlined process to make it fun and enjoyable and unintelligible 00:06:21 time.

Look, smell, taste, is exactly what we’re going to do today. Systematic approach, it really comes down to the appearance, the nose, the palette, so when we’re looking at the wine before we taste it, we’re looking for the clarity, intensity, how deep the color is, and then when we smell it’s the condition, the intensity, and Roman characteristics and then lastly, we’re going to taste. That’s where we are activating our palette and looking for the acidity, canon, body, and flavor characteristics. Then lastly finish unintelligible 00:07:06 finish a little short, long.

If we just stick with that approach you guys can reference it later and slightly back up, and that’s just kind of what we’re going to look for every time we taste wine. What do you see? What we’re going to do here is go ahead and pour our Sample 1 and Sample 2 in glasses. I have two glasses here, if you don’t have two glasses, feel free to pour one at a time. A great glass pack if that’s the case. If you only have one glass is when you switching into the second wine just swirl a little bit of the second wine in the glass before pouring the entire sample, and this will work going from white to red or red to white, coats the glass and is actually better than washing the glass.

Unless you’re going to do really good job washing glass, it’s just a nice way to transition the glass for whichever inaudible 00:08:09. Wine number one, not doing a blind tasting, so I’m just going to go ahead and let you know what you guys have in the class since we did the labels up. Wine one is Shea, Shea is from Oregon. It’s a home town wine for Obility, and when we’re looking at, we definitely see that we have a dense, deep color. We got a lot of bright inaudible 00:08:51. Yes, definitely unintelligible 00:08:57 you guys feel free to chime in on what you guys know, in the chat, or just think of some characteristics in your mind.

It could be fruits, it could be vegetables. There’s really no set rules or descriptors. Let’s go ahead and taste. I would say that that’s a medium body typical of a Pinot Noir, both of these ones are Pinot Noirs that we’re drinking, the first two. That’s really great. Definitely getting cherry which is very common with a lot of California big fruit unintelligible 00:09:52 Pinots as well as Oregon. Most of the Pinot Noir that’s grown in the United States is from California and Oregon. I would say a lot of my favorite Pinots are actually from Oregon. The Pinot Noir that we’re going to drink next is actually from France. When you’re looking at the wine and evaluating it, you see clarity. Do we see is it clear? Is it hazy? I would say that this is clear. It’s definitely not hazy and then the intensity I would give it a medium, and then color, as a very nice Ruby, Garnet color to it. We jumped through this, but we can go through this for the second wine, which is Nicholas Patel. It’s a red Burgundy, from the Burgundy region of France. Nicholas Patel is a interesting winemaker.

He spent a lot of time actually in the United States learning about winemaking as well. He actually has some of those characteristics that we find common in California and Oregon Pinot Noirs in this wine, but then still the light structure that you expect from a red Burgundy. This one can go through and we’ll just skip to the smell. I definitely get more of an herbal presence from this, some truffle, some font. Really good acidity, but I get spice and things that I didn’t necessarily want as present in the Shea, it’s all raw. Two really nice wines.

I think are great, great examples of Pinot Noirs. Pinot is French for pine. Pinot Noir, if you want to skip to the next slide here? Let’s skip one more. Sorry, I went through that as we go. As far as this is what we’d be tasting, I believe we went through a lot of unintelligible 00:12:21 tannins body on both of these, I would say medium. True to Pinot Noir, most are medium or unintelligible 00:12:34 low plus. Then the finish on both these I would say is medium, medium-plus. I’ would even say long on the Shea for sure.

Graham: Jey, so Hannah tastes Blackberry. Javan wants to know the name of the first wine, which is Shea. What do you taste differently between the French and the Oregon wines?

Jey: I get a lot more both on the nose and the palate on the Nicholas Patel, the red Burgundy. I get a lot of herbalness. If I had to call specific descriptors, I don’t know. I see just in looking at the two that the red Burgundy is much lighter. We have much deeper color in the Shea. The Shea, we get a lot of the Blackred. 100% agree with that. A lot of red and black fruit in the Shea, the Oregon Pinot.

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Graham: This is a lot of what you mentioned. Anything to add on the Pinots before we jump into audience targeting?

Jey: Sure. I think that these two are very true to the grape. The grape as we can see here grows in cool, moderate climate, usually above or below 37 degrees latitude. Oregon’s right up there with red Burgundy in terms of where they sit. The Burgundy region of France, thin skin. Pinot Noir is actually really a tough grape to grow. A little bit about labeling this might help some people on-air if they’re skipping back to look at wine number 2. Labeling in Burgundy is a little bit different, or in a lot of places in Europe, the labeling can vary from region to region.

In Burgundy, always you’ll see first the region, which is very different than the way a lot of wines are labeled the United States, then their commune or village. Then if it’s a single vineyard wine, it will say Premier Cru or Grand Cru. I think remembering region or the commune orvillage, that those come in that order and not vice versa.

Mike: Cheers. I’m going to jump into talking about audience targeting, and then we’ll come back to you for about the Cabs.

Jey: Sounds good.

Mike: When we talk about audience targeting, there’s some challenges for B2B marketers. The  ad networks aren’t that great for B2B. They just don’t value B2B at the same level that they value B2C. You have B2C advertisers like Geico that are spending tens of millions of dollars a month, and we just don’t see that many B2B advertisers that do that. Google and Facebook tend to gear their platforms towards those B2C audiences, and so what you get is limitations on the ad networks. That’s really what we’re going to try to address today, is trying to figure out a way around those limitations.

If we look at Google, they are limited to their first-party data for privacy reasons, and so they don’t have a lot of data around companies or titles, or some of the targets that we would like to target for B2B. They’re limited to that first-party data. It’s really hard to go after accounts, specifically within Google, or even going after specific titles. Twitter is similar. They don’t have account targeting or title targeting. There’s some workarounds in targeting on Twitter. Then Facebook has  account targeting and title targeting, but not a lot of people really share that information with Facebook.

In addition, their industries are really broad. It’s pretty limited in how we can target on Facebook as well. Then there’s LinkedIn, which is made for the B2B audience. We can go right after companies, we can go right after titles, but the industries are often a little too broad and overlap companies that we want to target with companies that we don’t. Really what we want to do is to create a tight enough targeting on LinkedIn that we’re reaching only the people that are highly relevant to our solution. What happens is, as we target these ad networks is there’s a lot of waste, and that waste is primarily due to impressions.

What happens when you show a lot of impressions to irrelevant accounts or irrelevant people, is that you’re going to have a low click-through rate and the ad networks are going to charge you more for a click. Even though those irrelevant accounts may not be clicking on your ad, it is causing your cost per click to go up and is wasting your money. Trying to reduce the amount of wasted impressions is really important because in the long run, it’s going to save you money too. Then there’s also time. If we’re having irrelevant companies or irrelevant people fill out forms when having salespeople call or follow up with them, that’s wasting their time where they could be talking to a relevant account.

Overall with targeting audiences, we really want to reduce waste. Similarly, like when Jey and I go out and drink wine, there’s often not a lot of waste leftover. We usually drink all of our wine. Unless he’s on a work call and a little more waste there. Just to get our nomenclature going, our nomenclature that I talk about is based off our work with Marketo and how they referenced accounts. This is stuck with me, and so this is the nomenclature that I use. When I talk about target accounts, that’s companies fitting a certain profile. That can be a certain revenue amount, it can be a certain number of employees, it can be a certain industry.

Target accounts are within specific parameters that you target in your audience targeting versus named accounts. Named accounts are those specific companies that you want to reach. Going after Dropbox or Expensify directly. What we’re trying to do is eliminate waste. Most of that waste is going to happen by targeting irrelevant accounts. If we targeted account parameters, there’s going to be companies in those account parameters that are just irrelevant and we’re going to be wasting impressions targeting them. In named accounts, there’s some waste there too, because we’re going to be targeting the wrong people.

If we target a marketing role at a specific account, there should be people that don’t work with the solution we’re going after, or there’s various titles that might fit, and we could be reaching the wrong person at one company and the right person on another. Both target accounts, campaigns, and named account campaigns have some waste. The campaigns with the least amount of waste is database targeting. That’s where we’re going after email addresses that are matched on the networks. These are specific people. We know that there are people that we want to target because they’re in our database, either as prospects or using some lists that we bought and have verified that list, and know that these are the individuals who we want to target. Our goal is to get as much our targeting in that database targeting as possible. It’s realistically impossible to get all the database targeting. There’s just a lower match rate of 30% to 50% on emails, so it’s going to be really hard to get that all there, but we want to get as much as we can into database targeting and then use the other campaigns for discovery.

In order to do that, we really need good data, and, unfortunately, the networks themselves don’t give us good data. Facebook gives us age and gender. That’s not all that helpful for B2B targeting. Google ads adds the parental status and household income. Again, that’s not all that helpful for B2B targeting either. The ad networks aren’t really helping us. LinkedIn does, to some degree. They give us company impressions for the campaigns that we run, and industry impressions. The problem with LinkedIn’s reporting is it’s really limited.

With LinkedIn reporting, we only get about 25 or almost exactly 25 companies, depending if there’s a tie for 25th place. That’s not a lot of information when you’re targeting thousands of companies with your account parameters campaigns. It’s really hard to know whether or not you’re going to target a relevant accounts with LinkedIn.

Jey mentioned his glass hack. We have a hack for LinkedIn as well. The way to get more companies out of LinkedIn is to pull daily reports. If you look at a week-long campaign, this was an Obility campaign, if we just pulled the report at the end of the week, we’re going to only get those 25 companies.

That’s the amount of companies you can get per report, so it’s going to be that 25. On the other hand, if we pull it out the campaign group every day for that full week and then aggregated that data, that number jumps up a bit. We had 85 companies. On the other hand, if we segment those campaigns within that campaign group by region and then pull that daily, we can get quite a bit more so. In this case, 285 companies, and that’s with using four regions to look at. That’s a way of getting more companies, but it’s really time intensive unless you automate the task of pulling the reports from LinkedIn and aggregating the data.

It’s a hack, but it’s not the best way that we want to get there. Ideally, we want be able to go in knowing the companies we want to target, knowing the individuals we want to target, and then use the more general account targeting campaigns as discovery for new companies and new people. The challenge here is that ad networks, everyone knows that we can’t really trust ad networks. Jumping over to the display side, if you’ve ever run on the Google display network, you’ll know that there’s just a boatload of poor sites that Google will show your advertisements on.

There’s a full site dedicated to exclusionsites.com, which is just all about finding sites to exclude from the display network. There’s advertising agencies that write about hundreds of thousands of negatively target on ad networks. At Obilty, it gets to the point where we greenlight publications to target rather than having to fight constantly to negatively target these placements. We’d rather go in knowing the publications we want to show on and green lighting those. That’s what we want to do for audience targeting too. We want to know the companies, we want to know the people that we want to show those ads to and focus on them.

The main issue is we can’t trust the ad networks and so, because we can’t trust them, we have to give them the data. We need to give them the accounts and emails. As we think about how we can’t trust Google, we can’t trust Facebook, can’t trust Twitter, I’m going to turn it over to Jey to walk us through Cab tasting.

Jey: Awesome. Thanks, Mike. It’s very important, but it’s fun for me to hear marketing terms and learn a little bit more about your world too, and I’ll try to find some segues to wine. As Mike mentioned, our glass hack from earlier, that’s a great one. I’ve already filled up the same glass. It was the glass one is now wine number 3. Then you can see I have a little bit of the wine here which would have been the red Burgundy. Plus, I’ve got a bucket here. You may not. You can see there’s still just a little bit left in there. Then what I’m going to do, put just a little bit in there, coat the whole glass, pass that out again.

Then now pour wine number 4, which is a really interesting wine. There we go. Another good hack that I thought of, Mike, that I just feel might be useful for everybody is just wine number 4 is definitely a funky Italian Cab. Sometimes you might get a wine, whether, I know that these weren’t shipped with corks, but if you get a wine shipped to you, whether it’s a gift from a friend or something you purchased off online, you may get some breakage in the cork. If you don’t have a strainer, which a lot of people don’t, specifically for wine, you can use a coffee filter and just put that at the top of your glass and put the coffee filter in there, or if you have a decanter.

A coffee filter works great to filter out court, so, there’s another hack that we can use since we’re talking about unintelligible 00:26:28. Cab, the opposite of Pinot, moderate or hot climate, deeply colored, high levels of tannins, really thick-skinned. Pinot is tough to grow because it has thin skins and that’s the opposite with Cabs. That’s why we have so much Cab throughout the world. I think I mentioned earlier. If I didn’t, Pinot, there’s about 300,000 acres of Pinot grown worldwide. The primary regions being France, United States, and Germany are the three largest producers. Cab is grown everywhere.

We’ll get to explore the Cabs from two very different places that taste very different. I think you guys would agree as well. First we’re going to go through our wine number 3, which is the Newton Skyside Cabernet 2017. As we’re looking at this slide, we can notice differences from the Pinots that we’re drinking, and then we’ll definitely see some distinctive differences between Wine 3 and Wine 4. Off top, when we see that Oak is usually used and maturation for Cab, and we can definitely get some Oak right away. If we’re walking through our systematic approaches that we talked earlier, is this clear or hazy?

I would definitely say it’s clear, not hazy. Hazy is usually a sign of a wine that’s off. Just as a heads up. Most of the time you’ll have a clear one, I would say. Intensity, I would definitely say this is medium plus, medium to deep. Color, I’ll call that garnet. Then our smell, clean. Again, clean is just corked or uncorked usually, but there could be just some funky stuff going on and it might not necessarily be corked. Let’s give it a taste. I would say that this is very full-bodied, what I would expect from a California Cab. Newton’s a great winery owned by Peter and Hua Newton, and they formerly who owned Sterling.

This winery is up in elevation. Sterling’s down the bottom of the Valley floor, so really cool, innovative winery, great price point. I would say that I get the blackberry that we were talking about earlier in this, good acidity for a California Cab. Definitely something that is great. I know it’s hot here in unintelligible 00:29:05 Oregon, but this is a good mid day Cab. Awesome. Let’s jump on to number 2, which I’m interested to taste again. Just on the nose you get– I think anybody that’s going through this right now. Italy doesn’t grow a lot of Cab, so it’s going to be really interesting.

When Mike picked us out and we said, “Cab, the Cab.” I was thinking more like a Bordeaux and this is Italian Cab. It’s really interesting. When you think Cab, you think big Tuscan wines and Nebbiolo and all these other varietals, but this is great. This is from Mazzeiand it’s called Philip. It’s an homage to one of their ancestors, so this is one of their flagship wine. It’s really a great wine, but it’s definitely interesting on the nose. I get unintelligible 00:30:04, I get bell peppers and mushrooms. It’s like I’m eating an entire dinner. It’s awesome. Let’s go ahead and give it a taste. A lot going on there. I would say, not what you’d expect from a Cab, but definitely interesting with a lot of complexity. Usually, complexity and a long finish will tell you that you’re drinking a really great wine. I would say this is that, but it’s definitely something different.

Not what I was expecting at all, but it’s really great. Mike go ahead and back over to you while I finish these two glasses.

Mike: We had a question about the clean versus unclean. Jey, do you want to describe what that means?

Jey: I think I’ve touched on it briefly. Essentially, cork scent is tough until you’ve smelled it and know. When we were saying clean or unclean, we’re really talking about cork tape. Like a corked wine. I would say this wine number 4, this doesn’t necessarily smell like a clean wine, but it’s also not a corked. It’s a really interesting wine. We get some white wines that have that unclean smell, but it doesn’t necessarily mean that it’s corked or bad, but typically what you’re looking for or what you’re trying to get a sense of and while you’re going through not only, your site checks, but then your smells, is if you see that it’s hazy and you’re smelling it something that’s unclean, think like wet cardboard or wet dog, or just something or very muted too, that’s typically unclean.

That usually will let you know that the bottle’s corked. These are not, so we’re not dealing with any cork taint, but that’s a way that you can go through it. Especially if you’re out at a restaurant, you don’t want to spend $100 on a bottle of wine. If there’s no unintelligible 00:32:11, it’s a good idea to go through those steps so you can then know if you don’t want to drink a corked bottle of wine that entire time through your dinner. That’s really what we’re looking for in clean or unclean.

Mike: Thank you. Jumping back in about us not being able to trust ads networks, because we can’t trust them, we really need to augment the data. The rest of that presentation is really about how we can augment that data. I know that account-based marketing can mean a lot of different things. When I talk about account-based marketing, I’m really talking, in this case, about what ITSMA calls the programmatic ABM. It’s the one to many accounts with paid social and audience targeting. We’re really talking about targeting thousands of accounts, at least at minimum, hundreds of accounts because we’re really going after that across the different platforms.

It’s really hard to target 1 or 2 or 50, even the accounts on paid social and display. This is really targeting a greater number of accounts. It’s not like the one to one accounts where you do send us unintelligible 00:33:29. It’s the multiple accounts that you want to target using the different ad networks. What we talk about and what we’re trying to get to is cascading campaigns, and that’s really about using those account parameters to discover new accounts to then either, add to the named accounts, or to exclude from the target accounts.

Really those campaigns are all about learning what accounts you’re targeting and then either adding them to a named account campaign or excluding them. You’re constantly refining that targeted campaign. Then named accounts, that’s all about reaching the right companies and then getting in front of the right people. We can use a lead gen to capture email addresses and really find out, again, who are the right people that we want to target. We can then add them to database targeting and then there’s really the wrong people. If our leads are unqualified or we know they’re not interested, let’s exclude them. If they’re already a customer and the solution they’ve already bought, let’s exclude them. It’s a way of adding people that we don’t necessarily want to target, so excluding them to then a named account campaign and then adding the ones we do want to target to the database targeting campaign.

Again, our goal is to continually tighten our targeting to get better and better as we go down. Target accounts, that’s going after those account characteristics. Again, we’re using it for discovery. Named accounts showing specifically at those companies we want to target, and then database targeting, going after those specific people. Those campaigns fill into each other. Targeted accounts fill into named accounts, named accounts fill into database targeting. Ideally, rather than waiting for all of that data and constantly waiting to see what companies we target on LinkedIn like we talked about earlier, pulling accounts every day and figuring out which ones make sense and which one don’t, the better approach is to look at all those accounts ahead of time and put in the work out front to figure out what accounts we want to target and what accounts we want to exclude.

There’s a way of doing that in Sales Navigator, you can search using the same account parameters that you would use on LinkedIn, advertising and then export those accounts. We use Phantom Booster as a tool because it’s not native into LinkedIn Sales Navigator to export. We use the tool to be able to export those accounts. Then you get a large list, oftentimes, thousands of accounts, that you would be targeting using your account parameters campaigns. If you’re looking at companies with over a hundred million in computer software with over 10 employees in marketing and then export that list.

That list should be fairly close to what you would have targeted if you ran that campaign. You’re getting that list ahead of time, so you can figure out, “Hey, I do want to target these. I don’t want to target these. It’s a way of jump-starting the process. Once you export that list you can use tools like EverString to really identify what accounts in there matched your target account profile. You can use tools like ZoomInfo and Apollo to really enrich that data to learn more about the different exact revenue amounts, exact employee accounts, and all sorts of data to do that. For customized data, our sister company Dunthorpe, they actually go in and call accounts to get information.

If they want to learn, for example, what EMR specific hospitals use, there’s not a good list that can tell that. ZoomInfo is not going to get that information, so calling into those accounts and actually qualifying those accounts before we go out and spend money and targeting them, is a way of narrowing down that list. Whether you’re using your data enrichment tool or using your SDRs to call directly, is good to narrow down that list, so you have a good list of named accounts. You can also expand that database. ZoomInfo and Apollo 2 can get those emails directly so you can look into exactly who to target in those accounts.

This will allow you to figure out “Hey, I got all these named accounts. I want to go directly after these titles.” Then pull their email address directly, and then you can use that to fill your database. Again, calling can help fill that to learn exactly who belongs there, shoot them an email, and start building that email address as well as the list buying. The goal is to expand your database so you can have more emails to go into your database targeting because of the match rate is pretty low. It’s 30 to 50%, so you need a lot of emails in order to really build an audience.

Ultimately what that looks like is multiple campaigns. We’re going to dive into specifically LinkedIn, and this would be in one region for one business unit, and then different types of campaigns that you would have. You have the account targeting campaigns that were targeted by industry, title on revenue, or industry role on revenue. Then you would use lead gen forms, you use content, for either lead gen or ungated content, as well as awareness campaigns to those different target accounts. From there you would learn new named accounts, and you’d build out your named account campaigns where you’d have programmatic ABM, where you’re targeting those named accounts, but you’d also have the named accounts that you’re targeting with the traditional ABM campaigns that the sales team is working.

You want to make sure that you treat those accounts differently and coordinate with sales for those campaigns. You’d have your programmatic ABM campaigns, you’d have your sales working named accounts, and then you’d have your database campaigns. Retargeting is a form of database targeting. Targeting all your prospects is a way of going after all of your large email list. Again, coordinating with sales to target specific emails is a good strategy. Having a different strategy for reaching out to your customers to grow their accounts is another form of database targeting. You have all these different types of accounts again that feed into each other. As we look down on the left, it gets tighter and tighter in our targeting. Again, a big part is we want to remember to exclude, so don’t forget to take out those accounts that aren’t a good fit, out of your account targeting campaigns.

Don’t forget to take out the email addresses that you don’t want to target in those named accounts. Make sure you’re adding that, and then use your database targeting. The thing about Facebook, Google, Twitter is, those are almost all exclusively going to be database targeting. There can be some named account and target account in Facebook, but really it’s going to be database targeting, and so you really want to have a robust database to go after for those networks. Takeaways, a couple of things. If you’re running LinkedIn campaigns, I definitely recommend going back and pulling that demographic report by campaign by day.

You’ll be really surprised at the type of companies that your campaigns have been targeting over the last month. That will give you a good place just to start to go through and say, “Hey these accounts make sense. Hey, these accounts don’t make sense.” Then using more regional campaigns to get tighter with those account level parameters, is really important. Then ultimately the goal of all this is to use targeted accounts to discover named accounts, named accounts to feed database marketing. That’s what the cascading campaigns is all about, so that’s really what we’re pushing here. Any Q&A?

Graham: Yes, there are a couple of questions here. This one is from Jey Nelson. In regards to ABM targeting, how do you balance tight account-based campaigns with scale and volume? It’s a two-parter. I’ve seen lead volume and conversion rates drop after switching to a matched account audience list in Linkedin. Also, what do you recommend for account-based vertical retargeting? Are you seeing this? You might want to look at it?

crosstalk

Mike: Here you go. Let me pull it out.

Graham: Jey is asking the tough questions.

Mike: In regards to the account’s targeting, there’s a plane where ad networks aren’t going to allow us to target too small an audience. We really have to be careful about that. In an ideal world, we could go one too few rather than one too many, so you really do need a big enough named account list and a big enough database for it to work in ad networks or else you’re not going to get enough impressions. The ad networks aren’t going to be able to learn that your ads and campaigns are good, and so they’re going to punish you for it. If you’re in a spot where you can’t target a lot of companies and you can’t target a lot of people, you’re going to be in a tough position and you might have to deal with wasted impressions and just hope you’re getting the right people because there isn’t going to be a waste.

Then, Graham, what was the second part of the question? You’re on mute.

Graham: Sorry. What do you recommend for account-based verticalized retargeting?

Mike: I’m going to take a stab at what that means.  If you’re separating by vertical, I would treat it similarly to how we separate regions. To separate the vertical campaigns, obviously you’re going to have different ads and so they need to be in separate campaigns.  Again, it’s the same thing. Just go through the process where you’re reaching the people that have either been to those vertical pages on your site and retargeting them, or you know that they’re the specific people or the specific companies in that vertical that wants to see those ads and want to see those solutions. I would break them out if you have enough volume.

Graham: Then one other question from Alex Wrubleski, I think it is, and we just got another one. What do you think is a good cost target per opportunity on SQL for a program like this?

Mike: That’s a good question, but a really tough question to answer. Is your company selling a million-dollar solution, $100,000 solution, or a $10,000 solution? That’s really going to dictate what a good cost per opportunity is. That being said, typically if we’re running a legion campaign on LinkedIn and its top of funnel. You’re going to see a $40 to $60 cost per lead. Then depending on your MQL rate, you can take it from there. It really depends. We have clients that are in the $200-$500 range cost per opportunity for less expensive monthly subscriptions like $99 subscriptions.

For us, we’re willing to pay a $15,000 per opportunity for our campaigns because that’s what, based on our close rate, our client is worth. We’re different and everyone is going to be different based off what they’re selling.

Graham: Then another question, what kind of budget thresholds do you see for success rates? You mentioned audience numbers, but how does budget relate? That’s from Kelly Wiginton.

Mike: Budget is a good question.  Hi Kelly, say hi. For most of our clients, we typically recommend a baseline budget of about 10K. That’s more so to be able to make pivots and learn from that information. The nice thing about EVM and database specific campaigns is there’s less need to learn about targeting and more need to learn about offers and ads and landing pages, so you can get away with a lower budget because you know you’re targeting the right audience. The downside is it’s going to be harder to learn from the different authors in ads and landing page copy, but at least you’re hitting the right people.

For these types of campaigns, you can have lower budgets than you would for say a paid search campaign or a brand awareness campaign.

Graham: That’s all the questions unless someone else wants to shoot one in really quick. Any wine? unintelligible 00:47:45 more wine questions? That’s what I thought most of it was going to be for. Did we ever answer what the name of the first wine was? Someone had asked that pretty early on, Jey.

Jey: Yes, we got that; Shea of Oregon, hometown Obility favorite. I think that was my favorite wine today.

Graham: I would be curious if we can run a poll to see what was the favorite of the people.

Jey: We can be able to do that. We can send one in the follow-up email.

Mike: For me, I thought 4 was the most interesting, and my favorite was 3. I’ve had a lot of Shea and I was a little disappointing with this Shea, but I think it’s because I hold them to a high bar.

Jey: Spoiled man.

Mike: Yes, I drink a lot of unintelligible 00:48:42, so we’re in different boats.

Jey: Newton is a really well-made Cab, and that’s more of a Bordeaux style. That’s a fun one and again at a great price point. I’d agree with you on number four was interesting.

Graham: chuckles We got one more question and about what was the name of the last wine from Diana?

Jey: The winemaker is Mazzei which is Italian M-A-Z-Z-E-I and then that specific one is called Philip. As I was saying earlier that you can research the wine Obility, and Mike picked a great one, is definitely a very interesting wine to taste. I don’t know if I’d ever taste anything again like that specific grape from Italy unless I was in Italy. That was a fun one, man.

Mike: That was a recommendation by unintelligible 00:49:39I guess, story of the wine is that it was originally created by a guy Philip who was friends with the founding fathers of the US, and would travel from Spain in either an investor type role. I heard a cool story, so that’s how we ended up with that wine.

Jey: That’s cool, cool story and a cool wine.

Graham: We got one other question from Kelly. Can Obility or DMG handle events like this for your clients? I wish.

Mike: Kelly, we’d be happy to host with you and you can share stuff that you’re doing.

Graham: Or do you just want to pick out the wines Kelly? Is that the truth?

laughter

Cool, I don’t think there’s anymore questions. She said, “both”.

laughter

If there’s no more questions guys, thank you for joining us. We will be sending out a recording, probably early next week. For those of you who did not get your wine, hopefully, you’ll receive it by then. If for some reason you didn’t, shoot us a note and we can at least check on the status or make sure we send it out again to you as well because, of course, that was the primary part of this was to taste the wine. The mike stuff was just extra.

Jey: Yes, totally, I feel bad we sent out that wine early for you. That’s a bummer.

Graham: Cool, thanks again and everyone have a good upcoming weekend.

Mike: Thanks, Jed.

Jey: Thanks for having me.